Three bad starts on 8/3 and 8/13 as well as his next to last start on 9/15 is what really bloated his ERA, not that 3.22 even in the '70s was that shabby.Yes, he was far removed from his prime but to say he sucked is pretty short sighted and flies in the face of the fact that he pitched well enough to be a 12-15 game winner, but then this is the same year Seaver pitched Cy Young caliber ball and went only 14-11. Really? $5 per night was considered expensive. (With three lefties and a Seaver, the Mets were lefty killers) But the Mets needed hitting. Koufax would have 175 by the All-Star Break. I have to respectfully disagree with NYB Buff's claim that Lolich belongs in Cooperstown. A Staub-Kingman combo would have provided more run support for big three, and probably a 90+ win season. March 22, 2005 However, it baffled me why the '76 Mets, who had Seaver, Koosman and Matlack, would trade one of their best hitters and an every-day player (and they didn't have that many good hitters) for a fourth or fifth starting pitcher. For a fourth starter, on a four man rotation, Lolich was decent. But I have to say, I laughed out loud when I saw his physical statistics on this site. The point is he made a bad team worse. HmmBaseball Reference.com is usually beyond redoubt, but I would say with almost unimpeachable certainty that Mickey Lolich weighed somewhere in the vicinity of 240 by the time he was huffing and puffing his way up the pitchers mound at Shea in 1976.Another awful trade, courtesy of M. Donald Grant, who couldn't wait to run Rusty Staub (coming off a team-record setting 105 RBI season) out of town, weeks after Mrs. Payson passed away. body would be a pretty slender person. LA-Mets August 11, 2015 For a fourth starter, on a four man rotation, Lolich was decent. I wish the Mets had a pitcher today with a 3.22 ERA. But keeping 105-RBI Staub would have provided middle lineup power 100% of the time. Larry Burns But this one defied all logic from the beginning. September 24, 2005 What an interesting parallel, huh? Bob P The plan was apparently: Vail LF/RF, Kingman LF/RF/1B, Milner, LF/RF/1B for those three spots. No put-down of Mickey, but that teamed needed Staub much more than they needed another pitcher. August 11, 2015 Lolich won complete games in Games 2 & 5 and faced and beat Gibson and the St. Louis Cardinals in Game 7 by the score of 4-1 as the Tigers won the World Championship. April 27, 2013 But what can you expect when the team only averaged 3.4 runs for Seaver per start and 3.3 for Lolich? His era of 3.22 is only .09% more than 20-game winner Carlton for the Phils. April 24, 2003 The trade was a great one for the Tigers and yet another whopper in a long history of bad trades for the Mets. May 7, 2013 October 19, 2011 Lolich was still productive but he was never accepted in New York because of whom he was traded for. Take a look at his stats on baseball-reference and you will shake your head. April 23, 2003 How Mickey still had an arm when he pitched for us is amazing. Anybody remember how Rusty looked those last few years in New York? Mickey Lolich did not want to come to the Mets. But then Vail got hurt, and Kranepool and the aging Torre got more playing time.The better plan was to keep Staub, and let Milner and Vail fight for a spot. Lolich was a fine pitcher. pete Then Vail hurt his ankle playing Basketball and he was never the same. January 12, 2011 Mickey had a lifetime 3.44 ERA and 2832 strikeouts. The two 13-inning games didn't even count for complete games because they went 15 innings! I'll start with full disclosure: I was (and still am) bitter that the Mets gave up one of my favorite players, Rusty Staub, to get Lolich-- who was well past his prime. He also had a terrific arm and was a darn good fielder. Mickey pitched almost 200 innings in 76, gave up less hits than innings and his era was in the low 3.00's. September 29, 2007 All of you New Yorkers are forgetting how the Tigers fared in this deal of Staub/Lolich. June 2, 2006 Its not Rustys fault the Tigers traded for hitting when they already had hitting. Lake Orion wasconsidered avacation cityin thepast. Meet former NHRA funny car driver Della Woods and her brother, crew chief Bernie Woods both from Lake Orion. Mickey pitched almost 200 innings in 76, gave up less hits than innings and his era was in the low 3.00's. Five years before he became a Met, Lolich threw for 376 innings! I remember that the Daily News at the time would have a one-page section on Sunday that showed some of the athletes with their families away from the ballpark. eddiek But what can you expect when the team only averaged 3.4 runs for Seaver per start and 3.3 for Lolich? Feat Fan July 31, 2002 In San Diego they had a fan club for him called the Mickey Lolich Gut Club. Shari So he went from being the long-time Tiger Ace (and best Tiger- the 1968 World Series was won by him- and also almost the 1972 Playoffs) to just a nobody for New York- can you blame him for this back-stabbing trade by Tiger management? July 15, 2016 John Bruce The fact that he pitched four consecutive 300+ inning years; that's like 10 years in today's game. But then Vail got hurt, and Kranepool and the aging Torre got more playing time.The better plan was to keep Staub, and let Milner and Vail fight for a spot. October 18, 2008 And complaining about how fat he was? Grant was a real hindrance to the Mets. They did not let him pitch the way he wanted. He was overweight and kind of babyfaced but I don't remember anyone being more focused or a battler. He also hit a home run in Game Two of the Series and outpitched Denny "31 Win" McClain in the Series. Although I'd rather have a hitter like Rusty, you have to admit, Mickey Lolich's ERA was a very respectable 3.22. As for all the innings Lolich pitched in Detroit, in today's game 300 innings is comparable to two full seasons, what with pitch counts and constantly babying starting pitchers. In that same year he went 13, 13, 12, 11 and 10 innings in 5 games. Bartolo Colon etc). April 23, 2003 For a fourth starter, on a four man rotation, Lolich was decent. He goes up one notch for being a character! Lolich won complete games in Games 2 & 5 and faced and beat Gibson and the St. Louis Cardinals in Game 7 by the score of 4-1 as the Tigers won the World Championship. He started 45 games and completed 29. As Sonny Jurgenson once said "you don't throw the ball with your stomach." HmmBaseball Reference.com is usually beyond redoubt, but I would say with almost unimpeachable certainty that Mickey Lolich weighed somewhere in the vicinity of 240 by the time he was huffing and puffing his way up the pitchers mound at Shea in 1976.Another awful trade, courtesy of M. Donald Grant, who couldn't wait to run Rusty Staub (coming off a team-record setting 105 RBI season) out of town, weeks after Mrs. Payson passed away. Feat Fan mets January 12, 2011 So when your "inning eater" goes 220 and gets a bonus it's beyond comprehension. His era of 3.22 is only .09% more than 20-game winner Carlton for the Phils. And of course Lolich did not want to be here, and the fans did not want him here either, so I am sure that's why he skipped town the next year. His not being elected to Cooperstown is a major oversight. Bartolo Colon etc). Mickey Lolich did not want to come to the Mets. Mickey loved his Harley. Like Seaver and Koosman, Mickey had pretty meager run support throughout his career. You have to remember that any ERA of 3.00 and over back in the 1970's was not a good stat. Mickey was at the tail end of his career when he came to the Mets. (With three lefties and a Seaver, the Mets were lefty killers) But the Mets needed hitting. John Bruce April 6, 2012 or Bruce Kison. Jay January 12, 2011 Only two others, Steve Carlton and Randy Johnson, have surpassed him. John Bruce But this one defied all logic from the beginning. Cut him some slack. October 19, 2011 Max Power Although Mick was not the same pitcher in NY that he was in Detroit, everyone seemed to like the guy. John Bruce body would be a pretty slender person. He made the all- star team 3 times, led the AL in wins once, shutouts once, complete games once, innings once, strikeouts once, and losses TWICE.He finished second (1971) and third (1972) in the Cy Young race, and he never finished higher than TENTH PLACE in the league in ERA (finished tenth in both 1971 and 1972).Baseball Reference lists among his top ten in similarity scores: Jerry Koosman, Jerry Reuss, Rick Reuschel, Luis Tiant, Vida Blue, and Joe Niekro.All of that tells me Lolich in his prime was a good pitcher, but nowhere near a HOFer. In one of his best games as a Met, hefty lefty Lolich (no doubt the prototype for David Wells), tossed 8 innings, allowing 8 hits and 2 walks while striking out 4, the only run scoring on a fourth-inning groundout by a young Dave Parker.Alas, with the Mets historically typical poor run support, Lolich left, trailing 1-0, for pinch hitter Mike Phillips, who fanned for the 2nd out of the ninth, before singles by Ed Kranepool (batting for Leon Brown) and Bruce Boisclair and a walk to John Milner loaded the bases for Joe Torre. Raymond Malcuit He started 45 games and completed 29. HmmBaseball Reference.com is usually beyond redoubt, but I would say with almost unimpeachable certainty that Mickey Lolich weighed somewhere in the vicinity of 240 by the time he was huffing and puffing his way up the pitchers mound at Shea in 1976.Another awful trade, courtesy of M. Donald Grant, who couldn't wait to run Rusty Staub (coming off a team-record setting 105 RBI season) out of town, weeks after Mrs. Payson passed away. He made the all- star team 3 times, led the AL in wins once, shutouts once, complete games once, innings once, strikeouts once, and losses TWICE.He finished second (1971) and third (1972) in the Cy Young race, and he never finished higher than TENTH PLACE in the league in ERA (finished tenth in both 1971 and 1972).Baseball Reference lists among his top ten in similarity scores: Jerry Koosman, Jerry Reuss, Rick Reuschel, Luis Tiant, Vida Blue, and Joe Niekro.All of that tells me Lolich in his prime was a good pitcher, but nowhere near a HOFer. NYB Buff He wanted to finish out his career in Detroit, where he had some great years (the photo of him jumping on Bill Freehan after the final out in the 1968 World Series is a classic). NYB Buff Or even a platoon as Vail was righty, and Milner was lefty.In the days of 4-man rotation, Seaver-Koosman-Matlack had them covered 75% of the time. End of Line Usually a bad trade doesn't reveal itself as bad until later when the player that came clearly is not working out. HmmBaseball Reference.com is usually beyond redoubt, but I would say with almost unimpeachable certainty that Mickey Lolich weighed somewhere in the vicinity of 240 by the time he was huffing and puffing his way up the pitchers mound at Shea in 1976.Another awful trade, courtesy of M. Donald Grant, who couldn't wait to run Rusty Staub (coming off a team-record setting 105 RBI season) out of town, weeks after Mrs. Payson passed away. Jamey Bumbalo support. Maybe when he was 15 years old he was 170, but at no point in his major league career was he ever 170. "I have 50 types of doughnuts here, and I only eat three kinds: fry cake, chocolate fry cake or fritter. April 24, 2003 Three bad starts on 8/3 and 8/13 as well as his next to last start on 9/15 is what really bloated his ERA, not that 3.22 even in the '70s was that shabby.Yes, he was far removed from his prime but to say he sucked is pretty short sighted and flies in the face of the fact that he pitched well enough to be a 12-15 game winner, but then this is the same year Seaver pitched Cy Young caliber ball and went only 14-11. February 27, 2002 Did NOT win the Cy Young. In my opinion, there are only three candidates for worst trade in Mets history:1) Staub for Lolich 2) the Ryan trade 3) the Seaver tradeI believe the Seaver trade was the worst, for obvious reasons. He later came back to play for the Padres. June 30, 2019 April 27, 2013 In his first full season 1964, Mickey Lolich went 18-9 an ERA of 3.26. Bob October 19, 2011 A Staub-Kingman combo would have provided more run support for big three, and probably a 90+ win season. October 19, 2011 Koufax would have 175 by the All-Star Break. Shickhaus Franks pete However, I remember Lolich as being quite portly, so his true weight was a lot more than 170 pounds. Jim Snedeker Usually a bad trade doesn't reveal itself as bad until later when the player that came clearly is not working out. His era of 3.22 is only .09% more than 20-game winner Carlton for the Phils. Maybe when he was 15 years old he was 170, but at no point in his major league career was he ever 170. But I think the final verdict has to be that neither team would have fared much differently with or without the Lolich/Staub trade. May 7, 2013 Mr. Sparkle After one year in New York Lolich retired. Cut him some slack. June 30, 2019 In that same year he went 13, 13, 12, 11 and 10 innings in 5 games. I used to think that Lolich sucked with the Mets, but after reviewing his stats and starts from that year, he was a damn effective #4 starter. NO WAY he was 170 pounds. Koufax would have 175 by the All-Star Break. 3.50 was more of a mediocre E.R.A in those days.About his profile of 6'1" and 170 lbs., I looked him up in the Baseball Encyclopedia and that's what they have. The Tigers had some great years back in the late 60's and early 70's- much like the Mets. June 11, 2003 Mickey Lolich is one of my favorite players. As somebody mentioned previously, this is really all Mike Vail's fault. Robert July 15, 2016 Donut Shoppe Patron Mickey pitched to a poor 8-13 record but he also had a 3.22 ERA which is pretty damn good. June 11, 2003 As Sonny Jurgenson once said "you don't throw the ball with your stomach." Too bad we waited until '76 to bring him in, although his numbers indicated a lack of run support. You knowthe one with the belly. HmmBaseball Reference.com is usually beyond redoubt, but I would say with almost unimpeachable certainty that Mickey Lolich weighed somewhere in the vicinity of 240 by the time he was huffing and puffing his way up the pitchers mound at Shea in 1976.Another awful trade, courtesy of M. Donald Grant, who couldn't wait to run Rusty Staub (coming off a team-record setting 105 RBI season) out of town, weeks after Mrs. Payson passed away. Five years before he became a Met, Lolich threw for 376 innings! October 13, 2008 December 13, 2007 Bob P But in his final season with the Tigers, he became the all-time leader in strikeouts for left-handed pitchers. December 8, 2006 snook As Sonny Jurgenson once said "you don't throw the ball with your stomach." Only two others, Steve Carlton and Randy Johnson, have surpassed him. To the guy who scored the game when Lolich gave up two homers to the no name pitcher- big deal? Peter Ken Akerman So he went from being the long-time Tiger Ace (and best Tiger- the 1968 World Series was won by him- and also almost the 1972 Playoffs) to just a nobody for New York- can you blame him for this back-stabbing trade by Tiger management? My memory is that while the Mets' front office had made dumb and abysmal trades in the past, this was one that just made no sense in any way, shape, or form. I recall one year where he had 121 RBI's. October 13, 2008 Two quick points that haven't been mentioned:- It was Mike Vail's fantastic debut that led the Mets to believe they had a replacement for Staub. The Tigers had some great years back in the late 60's and early 70's- much like the Mets. Bartolo Colon etc). December 24, 2001 News radio WWJ was a birthday gift from Detroit News Publisher W.E. McLain got all the publicity but Lolich got the wins in post season 1968. Rusty played another decade. When he was with the Mets, I gave him the name "TOO MUCH EATER" but then again the Orange and Blue has always had big boned hurlers (El Sid. According to his profile above, his height and weight are listed as follows:Height: 6.01 Weight: 170170 pounds on a 6 ft. 1 in. Poor Mickey. So why did you try to destroy the guy? Mickey Lolich did not pitch badly for the Mets in 1976. Shari A Staub-Kingman combo would have provided more run support for big three, and probably a 90+ win season. Lolich pitched fairly well with the Mets, in fact I recall a 2-0 shutout at Shea he pitched against the Cardinals in about two hours. He was my dad's favorite Met, though, I think because here was a gut with a gut as big as my dad's who was out there flinging baseballs for money. He never had much to say about Lolich's donut shop though. snook When he was with the Mets, I gave him the name "TOO MUCH EATER" but then again the Orange and Blue has always had big boned hurlers (El Sid. They were starting their descent into oblivion and the Staub trade was step in that direction. Not to say the trade wasn't awful - but come on! Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. October 4, 2005 I recall one year where he had 121 RBI's. But keeping 105-RBI Staub would have provided middle lineup power 100% of the time. He had a 2.59 ERA at the end of July. Joe was hit by a Bob Moose pitch to drive in the tying run, but the '76 Mets couldn't stand such success, as two singles and a double play grounder by future Mets coach Bill Robinson in the top of the 10th off Skip Lockwood gave the Bucs a 2-1 win. He may have left behind a fine legacy in Detroit but when he got to New York he stunk.You weren't happy with Rusty and we weren't happy with Lolich, so let's just call the trade a wash. Case closed. He still knew how to pitch but had no run support to get him a winning record. Mickey Lolich did not pitch badly for the Mets in 1976. Ramblin' Pete He and his second wife, Shatemar, split their time between Taos, N.Mex., where they own a ranch; Dallas, home to his six childrenages nine to 25from his first marriage; and L.A., where Thomas has a contracting company for commercial construction.
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