difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors

Are the sensors indeed the same functionally? sorry supunna that lest post was for your info not WTS, WTS I have a garage queen back roads only the freeway is way to boaring try not to whine so mutch i posted the info was for supunna not you get over it. Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members The opinions expressed on this site are not necessarily those of the Club, who shall have no liability in respect of them or the accuracy of the content. Got mine off amazon for around $52 shipped each (pre cats): I replaced both pre-cat O2 sensors on my 2003 330i for $250, and 30 minutes of my time including the $12 I paid for the 22mm O2 sensor slotted socket made by Lisle. Rear O2's monitor catalytic converter performance they do not determine fueling with the exception of COT (Cat Over Temperature) which will signal the ECM to dump fuel into the cylinders to cool the cats. In an effort to diagnose the faulty component I have been monitoring the pre and post cat O2 sensors using the graph displays on the Torque OBD2 app, but I need some help understanding the readings. Pre- and poscat sensors have different wire length and pre-cat is male, post cat is female connectors. The difference in the amount of oxygen between that present in the outside air, and that present in the exhaust promotes the flow of oxygen ions and produces voltage. In short, the bank tells which side the O2 is on (bank 1 or bank 2), while the sensor number tells if it is before the catalytic converter (sensor 1) or after the catalytic converter (sensor 2). The difference in the amount of oxygen between that present in the outside air, and that present in the exhaust promotes the flow of oxygen ions and produces voltage. Is a brake light and running light the same? You'll ruin sensors and have nothing to show for it. Poor fuel economy: a faulty oxygen sensor will upset the air to fuel mixture resulting in increased fuel usage. This is due to the fact that bank 2 is representative of an engines #2 cylinder, while sensor 2 serves as a downstream designation. Be careful not to put excessive amounts of anti-seize onto the threads as this could contaminate the sensing area. Last one . and 399 r.w.h.p. Come discuss mods, horsepower, engine specs and more! In turn, the computer activates the check engine light and logs code P0430. What's wrong with this picture? Since the oxygen sensor is in the exhaust stream, it can become contaminated. It is the responsibility of visitors to satisfy themselves that goods and/or services supplied by any advertiser are bona fide and in no instance can the Porsche Club Great Britain be held responsible. If you decide to do this long term, you will experience problems. The catalytic converter is where you will find the sensors. How many miles do you have to drive to reset oxygen sensor? Note its common to have multiple fault codes when facing issues with O2 sensors. Post-cat O2 sensors have much longer wires thus they cost a bit more. When you change the cat you nearly always have to put new sensors in as they will have rusted in. Minimize the help page. read the wiki, all common air leask are there, hi y have 2 codes po155 heated oxygen sensor bank2 sensor 1 (ho2s21) sensor heater circuit and po135 heated oxygen sensor bank 1 sensor 1 (ho2s11) sensor heater some vary can tell me the locations on this sensor and part #s or were i can buy it cheap thanks. This information is an example of our investigations and findings and is not a definitive procedure. Downstream Rights means the rights that are acquired from the Downstream Operator by a User or the Downstream System counterparty user, in order to receive the Regasified LNG at a Regasified LNG Delivery Point. If both O2 sensors and catalyst was replaced then you may have an exhaust leak at the manifold or pipes. You just need to get one precat O2 sensor. Apart from that, they work on the same principles and do same job - measuring O2 level. Too little fuel produces nitrogen-oxide pollutants. Check the O2 sensor is reading correctly by confirming the O2 value with a four, or five gas emission analyser. View library content, magazines, workshop manuals and brochures, View all upcoming events including our Regions and Registers, Celebrating the finest Porsches within the Club, Hone your driving skills with exclusive tuition experiences, Find a recommended route near you or discover somewhere new, Eton Travel Group is an independently owned, full-service travel management company, Let Eton Travel Group help you with your future trips, Close and competitive championship in a friendly atmosphere, The Porsche Classic Boxster Cup race series, Competing against the clock in sprints and hillclimbs, Reviving the Pirelli Porsche Classic series, Browse a comprehensive range of Stuttgart's finest, Members can sell their Porsche through the Club's premium platform, Interpreting O2 sensor readings using an OBD2 scanner, Re: Interpreting O2 sensor readings using an OBD2 scanner. Wide band O2 sensors have an additional O2 pumping cell to regulate the amount of oxygen present in the sensing element. The tools used in this guided test may have been superseded and the products above are our latest versions used to diagnose the fault documented in this case study. Picture Information. Click to enlarge. Free shipping . Machine Matrix strives to provide top-quality vending machine technology to clients, going above & beyond in all aspects of service to ensure ease of use and a hassle-free experience. In most cases, a vehicle with an inefficient catalytic converter will continue to run just fine. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. This signal is then sent to the Electronic Control Module (ECM) and the mixture is adjusted accordingly. Pre Cat and Post Cat O2 Sensors For Suzuki Swift Sport RS416 1.6L M13A M16A . The catalytic converter maintains the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio of 14.7:1. This allows for best signal acquisition. There is no different part number for bank1 and bank2. This also happens during initial warm-up. Disclaimer Bank 2 Sensor 1 means Upstream Left/Front; Bank 1 Sensor 2 means Downstream Right/Rear; Bank 2 Sensor 2 means Downstream Left/Front. Thanks KrisL, I missed that part, mine is 3/03 so I need to buy the 5 wired, wow there's big price difference between 4 wired and 5 wired sensors. Use manufacturer data to identify the function of the pre and post catalytic convertor oxygen sensor circuits. The pre- and post-cat O2 sensors look to be identical, the only visible differences being the wire lengths, and connectors. $71.24 . Maybe try a search? Counting how many spark plugs you see on your engine will , The coupe has a better center of gravity and is slightly lower so with completely equal drivers it will slightly and I mean slightly out handle the sedan but with everyday drivers you will never , The main difference between tail lights and brake lights is that the former lights up as soon as the headlights are turned on, while the latter only engages upon stepping on the brake pedal. Use an oscilloscope to check the signal at both idle and approx. o2 sensors where is bank 2 sensor 1. bjones. Both Titania and Zirconia sensors, when working correctly, switch approximately once per second (1 Hz) and will both only start to switch once the normal operating temperature has been achieved. The pre-cat sensor regulates fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the catalytic converter. Their bodies are identical, so the threads. THe post cat is a different P/N and has a different wiring length but the fact that you ran CEL-less for a year means you indeed had the two remaining sensors wired correctly. Training resources and demonstrations on PicoScope and the Automotive Diagnostics Kit. i.e. This page could not be found. Your email address will not be published. 2,500 rpm engine speed. 2001 camaro z28 ss vert with factory slp upgrades, Hooker long tubes, 3"y-pipe to a 4" muffler, ,airlid,s.s.r.a. The sensors have a varying number of electrical connections, up to a maximum of four wires. Okay so essentially from my understanding, hopefully, someone chimes in. Fantastic products and support with unbelievable performance for the money. Cornbury House, Cotswold Business Village It is always going to be located after the catalytic converter. Bank 2 Sensor 1 is the first sensor closest to the engine. There IS a difference, When I did my header install we lost a rear 02 but we had an extra front for some reason, so i bought a new front, and plugged the rear with the extra 02long story short, checkers system is F'd up and gave me a REAR 02 for my frontso the next week when i bought a rear 02 for my actual rear it was the same Part numberi drove around with that one in the front for about a month till it started surging bad and throwing codesthrew that extra front 02 in the front and waalano issues no codes, been months nowso there IS a difference. This is a TSB regarding the P2096 problem. Contact information for direct sales and support queries, plus our network of global distributors. Such information, advice and assistance provided by such persons is given in good faith and is based on the personal experience and knowledge of the individual concerned. It's been a while since I've checked into thisso hopefully, someone can back me up. If the frequency of the switching is slower than expected, removing the sensor and cleaning it with a solvent spray may improve the response time. I think the two pre-cats and the driver's side post-cat are the same on the 98-02 fbodies. hi guys i got old 02 sensor out a Little tight getting new one in. Don't do it. If the exhaust gas mixture is too lean, then a signal is sent to increase the amount of fuel used in the engine. 17539 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; sensor location. All three O2 sensors are intechangeable. How do you fix P0420 catalyst system efficiency Below Threshold Bank 1? So why is the light still on? $80.43 . By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. The difference is the wire length. When the oxygen sensor fails, the computer can no longer sense the air/fuel ratio, so it ends up guessing. Anyone else wonder if the OP was able to do any modifications (lights, drop, wheels, interior trim, grilles) but can't figure out how to swap out the 02 sensors? Upstream is before the Cat and downstream is after the cat. A switching voltage on the post-cat sensor indicates that the gases are passing across the catalytic converter's ceramic monolith without being subjected to chemical change and therefore the cat requires replacing with a known good unit, providing that the pre-cat waveform is within specification. Rough engine idle or misfiring: since the oxygen sensor output help control engine timing, combustion intervals and air to fuel ration, a faulty sensor can cause the vehicle to run rough. Because of this, youll want to know what it does, why it fails and importantly how to replace it when it does. The sensor is inoperative below 300 C. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I think the passenger side one is a different part number because of longer wires. This enables the sensor to be located further away from the heat source at the manifold to a 'cleaner' location. Oxygen molecules from the exhaust gas pass through tiny slots or holes in the sensors steel shell to reach the sensing element, or nernst cell. 2012 BMW 328i (F30) 2.0L N20 - PRE / POST CAT O2 OXYGEN LAMBDA PROBE SENSOR SET . Downstream Sensor is in the Exhaust Pipe Post-Cat. Before giving out ANY information regarding cars, or any other items for sale, please satisfy yourself that any potential purchaser is bona fide. Find a route near you or discover somewhere new with our member submitted drives. They reacts to the oxygen content in the exhaust system and produce a small voltage depending on the air/fuel mixture seen at the time. The oxygen sensor, otherwise known as the O2 sensor, does what its name suggests it measures the amount of oxygen in the exhaust. This help topic is subject to changes without notification. The technical storage or access is required to create user profiles to send advertising, or to track the user on a website or across several websites for similar marketing purposes. Top wire: White heater (+) Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. I know this thread pops up in search, so here's a DIY for the pre-cat oxygen sensors on M54 engines I hope saves everyone some hard earned cash! If required, apply the compounds to the new sensor before re-fitting. The downstream oxygen sensor(s) are located in the exhaust pipe, behind the catalytic converter. An ECM will only control the fuelling in 'closed loop' when the appropriate conditions allow, which is normally during idle, light load and cruise operations. All Rights Reserved. Check engine light: whilst the check engine light can come on for many reasons, it is normally down to an emission related issue. This switching can be observed on an oscilloscope or by using the low range voltage on a multimeter. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. Content on spyderchat.com is generated by its users. OEM numbers are obviously different. If you are boating from Kingston to Toronto, for example, you are heading upstream. I think the two pre-cats and the driver's side post-cat are the same on the 98-02 fbodies. JavaScript is disabled. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. The most commonly used sensor has a Zirconia element, producing a voltage when there is a difference in oxygen content between the two electrodes. To protect against the sensor becoming welded into its threading, Delphi sensors come with anti-seize compounds either pre-applied or included in the box. Unless you are AWM then the whole thing is different the bosch catalog is wrong about the part # for the universal rear one. A sensing element sits inside the sensor, encased in a steel housing. These can all affect the oxygen sensors response characteristics, resulting in an extended response time or a shift in the sensor voltage curve and in the long run reduced sensor performance. Thanks! Free shipping . 3rd wire: Black - signal $64.34 . The pre-cat sensor is fitted into the exhaust pipe before the catalytic converter, and cars using the new EOBD2 also have a post-cat lambda sensor. The downstream oxygen sensor detects the change and informs the vehicles computer. . Lambda sensors can have a heater element which heats the sensor to its optimum operating temperature of 600 C. Do universal sensors work, well yes. Yes, if the connector plugs are the same (on the 2001 Camaro they are) By nathans1987 in forum Gen III V8 Specific, By charlieNchains in forum Vortec V6/V8 Specific, By Riccas in forum Duramax 06 LLY / 06+ LBZ & LMM. I was very impressed as to the speed and ease of ordering. It's been a while since I've checked into this.so hopefully, someone can back me up. A lambda sensor is also referred to as an Oxygen or O2 sensor, or a Heated Exhaust Gas Oxygen (HEGO) sensor, and plays a very important role in control of exhaust emissions on a catalytic-equipped vehicle. JavaScript is disabled. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. I remember being taught differently in my first Bosch school BSC 1. Local autozone had it in stock less than $100. Honestly, with narrow band sensors, it WILL work. How do I know which oxygen sensor to replace? Come join the discussion about Bimmerfest events, production numbers, programming, performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Form: Not sure if the sensor itself is any different but I know the connectors are (at least on the 04's) 2004 Yellow M6, 1 of 1014 When the o2 sensors are working properly, then the upstream and downstream o2 sensors should have different readings. Remember that bank 1 is determined by the side where cylinder number 1 is located. The upstream oxygen sensor(s) are located below the exhaust manifold flanges and above the catalytic converter. Then use a spanner or dedicated O2 socket wrench - to unscrew the sensor from its seating. When responding to advertisements please ensure that you satisfy yourself of any applicable call charges on numbers not prefixed by usual "landline" STD Codes. The lambda sensor is essentially two porous platinum electrodes. You must use the correct ones, whether oem with the correct length cable and plug, or the correct "universal" equivalent, that will require you to measure and splice your old plug onto it. . please help all stuff is breaking this wknd !! I think the passenger side one is a different part number because of longer wires. A switching voltage on the post-cat sensor indicates that the gases are passing across the catalytic converter's ceramic monolith without being subjected to chemical change and therefore the cat requires replacing with a known good unit, providing that the pre-cat waveform is within specification. Inspect the exhaust manifold and fuel injectors for leaks as well as the condition of the ignition components these may affect sensor operation. I then tried a front universal and all was well. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". Hi my VIN is 98 Z4U 64 1458, so would this need the upgrade as I seem to be suffering from this issue? How do I know if its my upstream or downstream O2 sensor? I have two new original postcat sensors. . JavaScript is disabled. Apply a clean and reusable pulse oximeter sensor to either foot. are the pre cat and post cat 02 sensors the same? Switch on the oximeter and connect the applied probe to the oximeter. Where is the downstream oxygen sensor located? A forum community dedicated to BMW owners and enthusiasts. Each vehicle may be different and require unique test Even though both O2 sensors are four wire, heated O2 sensors, there are definitely differences that the Motronic can detect. The difference between the two is about $1,000.. Phase I=140whp Phase II=230whp Phase III=Cant tell the clutch pedal from the brake! Whereas wide-band is 1V -5V, allowing for more detail when not at ideal operating conditions. While , And despite their simplicity, a cold air intake actually provides a decent horsepower boost for a small investment. Bank 2 Sensor 2 is the second sensor on the engine's exhaust pipe, usually behind the catalytic converter. If you unplug the lambda sensor it will need to default to the fuel maps that its already calculated as being good. However, bank 1 has two sensors, of which sensor 1 is located near the engine before the catalytic converter, an upstream sensor called pre-CAT, and sensor 2 is located after the catalytic converter called post CAT, a downstream sensor. Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions. it is unlikely both o2 sensor went at the same time. Because many late model vehicles have multiple oxygen sensors, be sure you correctly identify the bad sensor so you do not mistakenly replace the wrong one. The best way to do this is to look at real-time data using a diagnostic tool. The Titania Oxygen sensor differs from the Zirconia sensor in that it is incapable of producing its own output voltage and is therefore reliant on a 5-volt supply from the vehicle's ECM. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. All combined to achieve 29 m.p.g. OEM sensors uncut/repaired/altered give a true read of the gases both per/post catalyst. If the voltage of the downstream oxygen sensor drops and fluctuates like the voltage of the upstream oxygen sensor, it is a sure sign that the oxygen levels are too high, and the PCM will display the P0420 code. SpyderChat Forum is a community for Toyota MR2 Spyder Enthusiasts to discuss specs, reliability and more! We use cookies to optimize our website and our service. The product is excellent. Is upstream pre or post cat? A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. Other tooling or equipment may be required to determine if it is the actual sensor and not the wiring that is causing the problem. 06-29-2005 08:28 PM. check out the. 2nd wire: White heater (-) Way too much..an OEM O2 sensor is $120-150 from autohausaz.com. The time taken for a good trace may vary between 30 seconds to 2 minutes. Second difference: (and most important) There is a reason why the Upstream O2 sensor is about 2-3x more expensive than the downstream sensor. 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The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, https://turbobricks.com/resources/O2sensors.pdf, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. with unbelievable performance for the money. AU $129.99 + AU $45.00 postage . New . But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Click the Add comment button to leave your feedback. Contact the seller. If you need assistance having this checked or repaired, a qualified pro from YourMechanic can come to your location to inspect the system and replace any O2 sensors that are faulty. You will see that, The pre catalytic converter sensor signal. This is called open loop mode. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. 27 sold . However I'll defer to your knowledge with working at Bosch. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. Delphi Technologies is a brand of BorgWarner Inc. Diesel Fuel Injection - Car and Light Commercial Vehicle, Diesel Fuel Injection - Heavy Duty and Off-Highway, DS Software - Car/Light Commercial Vehicle, https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/delphi-technologies-aftermarket/, https://www.youtube.com/DelphiTechnologies. We know that our PicoScope users are clever and creative and wed love to receive your ideas for improvement on this test. functioning wise) Also, where can I buy a cheaper O2 sensor? So essentially bmw did a change to the DME which came with different sensors, the wide-band I mentioned, in 2003. Upstream Sensor is in the Exhaust Manifold Pre-Cat. Depending on the engine design, vehicles can have multiple oxygen sensors, sometimes on both sides of the engine. Narrowband = typical lambda/oxygen sensor. ,t.c.bypass,descreened m.a.f. Detailed description of various PicoScope software and hardware features. settings. Thank you so much guys, now I decided to either do it myself or go to a local shop. Tighten the sensor to the recommended torque. Reading the trouble codes will tell you exactly which sensor is in need of replacing either the upstream (top) or downstream (bottom) sensor and on what bank (side) of the engine. If this is your first visit, be sure to It lets you see what you previously had to guess was happening. Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site! The POST-cat O2 sensors are the only ones effected. The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network. It is what tells your cars ECU when the AFR goes rich, stoic, or lean. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. Our collection of training videos, articles, guides and information on training courses. Copyright 2022 Machine Matrix L.L.C. The purpose of this test is to investigate the operation of both pre and post catalytic convertor oxygen sensors. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes. It is also exposed to extremely high temperatures, and like any component can wear over time. JavaScript is disabled. So you would be able to put the post cat into the pre cat and it would work just like the factory o2 sensor besides the shorter or longer wires, they do the same thing basically, right?

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